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Permalink Reply by Lauren on June 23, 2008 at 2:16pm

I agree with you there - I have no desire for universal healthcare, but rather for change. Affordable for all, or at least that is what I thought I have been saying. Perhaps I haven't been explaining myself very well. I just wanted to point out that we have no idea what universal would have been here in the states. Heh.


My husband does something along those lines - he's a contractor (3d artist) on the side and we pay quite a bit in taxes from what he makes. I'd love to be able to be self employeed - do design for clients etc. But right now it isn't reasonable for this newly wed couple. :)

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Permalink Reply by Shannon on June 23, 2008 at 2:23pm

I'm a newlywed, too. In fact, my husband and I actually got married in secret almost 5 months before our actual wedding . We did it so that I could be added to his health insurance through his company (he works for a big one).

It still makes me a little sad that we had to do this, but as a diabetic, I couldn't get healthcare on my own (for less than $1000 per month). We simply did what we had to do so that I would be protected.

We just passed our *legal* one-year anniversary on June 1st. We decided we wouldn't celebrate that day because we consider our real anniversary to be our October wedding day. Instead, when my husband woke me up that morning, he said "happy healthcare day."

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Permalink Reply by Lauren on June 23, 2008 at 2:34pm

Haha. Thats funny - my husband and I had considered doing the same exact thing. (On top of freelance he teaches 3d at a local school) I was working for a sinking ship of a company at the time and the constant worry that I'd be jobless was getting to be too much. I held out until December - after we got married and I got added on to his insurance - and have since found gainful employment elsewhere. TMI, I'm sure.

You're kind of lucky that the state you live in would had insurance policies that you could purchase - even if it was incredibly expensive. Florida won't write one for me, I looked into it. Maybe not being self employed had something to do with it.

Permalink Reply by Kristin on June 24, 2008 at 2:41am

HAHA :) That's pretty funny!

I'm a newly wed too :) We should have thought to get married sooner (in secret) so I could have joined the national health care system earlier!!

One thing that bothered me about the system in the USA is that people with health complications need to find (and consistently) keep a job at a big company that has good insurance. I wasn't ready to go the traditional road-- and that cost me a lot of money. I always had to find some way to get by....

Maybe that's just life.... and I should have grown up earlier. But young people with no health problems just don't face that.

About the universal system, actually the national system in Hungary is NOT universal! It is just national (insurance and prices set by a separate government organization). If you do not pay taxes into the system, you do not have insurance. But you can buy it for 10% of minimum monthly income. It does cover children and elderly universally. The MAIN difference is that the premium you paid is based on INCOME, not risk. And eligibility is based on employment or paying (30 dollars per month), NOT health.

It just says that a healthy society is something that we should all pay for. This system needs reform too-- and like Laura said-- i don't think the USA system should become universal, but we should think how to make the system more efficient and fair!

As Bob pointed out, we waste a lot of money on medical malpractice insurance. Let's get that down...
Also, the price of providing emergency care to the uninsured might be MORE expensive than insuring them. Perhaps a more fair system does NOT need to be more expensive than the current one!

Permalink Reply by Judith on June 23, 2008 at 3:08pm

Such a wonderfully civilized discussion. An aside----don't forget that once upon a time, Social Security actually worked really well and that it was instituted because The Elders of our country really were living on dog food. I don't want to go back to that and I hate to see us give up on it so easily. It is something worth fighting for......

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on June 23, 2008 at 3:32pm

I'm going to join this discussion very late in the process (hard to keep track of everything here), because this is one of the central issues for the future (energy and the environment being others, but this one is personal). First, my background -- 25 year plus type 1, pumper. I'm a partner at a big lawfirm, which means that, though it is a job, I am treated as self-employed, which means I pay for my own health insurance, at the rate of about 18,000 per year (and that's after I get my small deduction for health care expenses). I also am fortunate enough to be in the position to pay an enormous amount in income taxes every year as a resident of New York City and New York State.

Now, here's my take: there is a lot wrong with the health industry today. There is too great a profit motive with the insurance companies. The medical malpractice lawyers make medical errors too costly, driving up the costs of business for doctors across the board, with verdicts and settlements that often are way out of line, but still, paradoxically, often do not compensate many victims enough for the economic costs of the errors. The drug companies would prefer to make medicines that we have to use for the rest of our lives, rather than the treatment that will result in a cure. And we ignore the benefits of education and how health-related education, pre-screening and testing can help save money in the long run. And I am not even going to start on the privacy issue, because in this day and age, I really do not believe that we have any left.

Who should pay: The entire nation should pay. Why? Because those who are healthy right now may suddenly find themselves not healthy, whether it is the result of an accident, diabetes, parkinson's disease, ms or cancer. Our health rarely changes gradually. Often, it is sudden, and the cost of care is exorbitant. It is not a question of the rich or the high earners paying for the people who are not as fortunate or even do not work as hard. It is a question of all of us, across all income levels, wealth levels, work backgrounds and socio-economic positions being part of a national insurance fund.

It used to be that employers funded generous health benefits for employees. When I first started working, my insurance covered 80% of everything, with a $500 annual deductible. Today, except for prescription coverage, I net about 11% back from my health insurance claims. Employers are trying to cut back on employer-paid insurance plans because of the costs. Some companies try to avoid benefits by having independent contractors.

Paying for all of this health care means a tax. Companies should pay a health insurance tax that is about equal to the cost of a decent insurance plan. They should pay it based on the number of employees (treating independent contractors as employees). Individuals should pay it as some kind of an income or sales tax.

And, the insurance industry should be converted to a non-profit business -- businesses should not be making money off health insurance, and insurance company executives should not be making tens of millions of dollars per year for cutting costs. It all results in the wrong decisions being made.

Just one man's opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Judith on June 23, 2008 at 3:42pm

Definitely on the right track. Well said. I've long thought that employers is the wrong place for this effort. And for those who can only say no new taxes, we need to remember that Billionaire Buffet pays at a lesser rate than his secretary. There is room for equitable reform here!......

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Permalink Reply by Bob @ joy of diabetes on June 23, 2008 at 5:42pm

.....Wow, Shannon and Lauren, you guys rock!!!!!...nice responses...

Shannon did a better job of relating my thoughts I think than I did.
In a nutshell, I think that the ability to purchase health insurance should be available to everyone. What that would mean in dollars and sense, is that everyone would see an increase in their rates. I understand that and think it should be the way to get this done.

As for my stating that I am tired, I guess what I was trying to say was, please don't ask
me to carry any more. I am already carrying mine plus a lot of others.
Anyone is welcome to do the same....if you think we all need to do more, do it! Just add it to your taxes at the end of the year. Take no deductions and send in 40% of your income......I do. If government healthcare comes to fruition,that number will increase to probably at least 50% plus. Add that amount too, I will.

I did not have health insurance until I was married at 27. I couldn't get it until I married my wife who had it at BCBS.
I get the starving thing. I would have qualified for food stamps for the first 5 or 6 years of my business while working 80-100hours a week. Often 7 days a week.
I was hospitalized without health insurance, and wound up paying cash monthly over the next 4 years to square up my bills with the doctors and the hospital.
I currently am a foster parent who is raising someone elses child I don't know along with my own 4.
I pay half of all of my employees health insurance, and I pay half of their Social Security. I pay them for time off from work(vacation). I guess now I will be responsible to do more .
I would like to encourage everyone to do more. To give you an idea, if I work an average of 70 hours a week, and the government takes 40% of my income, that equates to 70 hours x40% = 28 hours for the government, and 42 hours for myself. If they raise my taxes to cover this new (free medical) to 50% plus, where am I gonna find another 7-10 hours a week? I think everyone should have to work another 7-10 hours a week to pay for government healthcare if I have to.

I wonder how many of the folks that say they can't afford health insurance currently
own 1 or 2 vehicles
a cell phone
cable t.v.
internet
a computer
air conditioning..and if they have it, do they run it at 78 degrees or more
a big screen t.v or multiple t.v.s
a DVD player
an Ipod
Tivo
smoke or use tobacco
eat at restaurants
brown bag their lunch
carpool
children with cell phones
Blockbuster or Netflix
Buy store brands instead of name brands
make their own coffee instead of going to Starbucks
own their own home or have equity in it

I know it's not popular to point out that these are niceties, and not necessities that add up to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month.
I also know that there are a lot of people who are in need, but I think most of it is covered. The biggest need in my mind is access.

I believe it is all about access to be able to purchase health insurance...not forcing someone else pay for it. I think if we focus on access, then everyone will win and a rising tide will lift all ships.
oh -oh........here come the arrows...........Keep going................ Peace, Bob

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Permalink Reply by Shannon on June 23, 2008 at 6:19pm

Obviously, no arrows coming from me, Bob. We definitely see eye-to-eye on this.

I've said it in nearly every post I've made - it all comes down to choices.

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Permalink Reply by Bob @ joy of diabetes on June 23, 2008 at 6:42pm

Thanks Shannon, I agree, choices define outcomes. Access to be able to buy in to health insurance allows all to participate and then pick and choose the plan they want to pay for.. I dont see any other reasonable way.
Thanks for the support.......you're the best....Keep going .... Peace, .Bob

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Permalink Reply by Khürt Williams on July 10, 2008 at 5:32pm

Yeah Bob. I agree. Access and choices.

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Permalink Reply by lane jaeckle santos on July 10, 2008 at 5:00pm

Amen!

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